Garter Snakes and Frogs

[Marley-The-Beardie]

Really? Awesome! I'll take your advice! Thanks!!!

[Cheller]

and pictures :P we love pictures

[Marley-The-Beardie]

Alright! I'll have fun with those! :3 I'll get back to you with as many pictures as I can get!

[ti-pite]

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[ti-pite]

Originally Posted by slievers

Just go for a walk in the river valley on a nice day. I have been down there 4 times this year so far and I have yet to leave without seeing at least one garter snake.

well, thats impressive! i go for frequent walks in the river valley in Edmonton and have never seen one (sask drive, hawrelak, goldbar, mill creek, whitemud, laurier). I have seen them in Devon, but not in edmonton. in what part of the valley do you take these walks?

[walkerdude]

I was curious. I haven't been coming to this forum for long, but I have read on numerous occasions that the reason den locations aren't given out is because people, as you say, might "rape and pillage" them. Has there ever been an actual case of this happening or are you just assuming the worst about people? I'm a photographer and I once asked for advice on where I might go to photograph snakes around the city and I got the same cold shoulder. Personally, I think it's just a case of the "experts" having a "I know where it is and you don't" complex. Not everyone who asks for advice is a plunderer. I was lucky enough to find some very productive locations (without the forum members' help) and took some stunning photographs and video last year. No offence, but if you're claiming this so-called "raping and pillaging" are happening - support your accusations with proof. I'm sure if you've encountered these destroyed dens that you must have taken photos of the scene. I would have.

[FrogO_Oeyes]

I have seen den entrances destroyed. One local den is fenced to protect it. The wildlife act and regulations allow the possession but NOT the sale of native garters specifically because they are vulnerable and concentrated at dens.

Although the destruction does sometimes happen, it does not need to to justify caution. Humans are destructive by nature far too often. Anyone with a genuine interest will have little trouble either locating dens themselves, or finding someone to guide them.

[Ollie]

Just this week someone local was advertising w/c garter snakes for sale on another site, all sizes etc. Where do you think they got them from?

It's not just "experts" feeling superior but the majority of the herper community that wants to protect them. Maybe instead of any of us proving to you what happens, you should prove to us that you can be trusted.

[joeysgreen]

The local den that I go to used to have thousands upon thousands of snakes. Now, I'm lucky to see a couple hundred. This is a popular den site, known to many locals outside of our herping hobby. Many of these people don't realize the damage they do as they trudge right over the mass of snakes to grab a few and "experience" nature.

I"m glad that you found some dens. I might suggest reporting them to the Alberta hibernaculum database. It's goal is simple. You cannot protect a den that you don't know exists. The information is protected, just as we try to do hear.

If I recall a discussion we had in the past, I had suggested you hang around, participate, and get to know us. I do bring people I trust to some of the more known hibernaculums. 43 posts since 2008 doesn't exactly gain such trust.

[Siren]

I have to agree with Ollie and Ian. It's not people trying to give you the cold shoulder but protecting a vulnerable animal. As Ollie said, there was just an ad up on another site advertising w/c garters and there's no doubt that this person had found a hibernaculum and had raided it for his own sick gain. He is not the only one out there, just the only one stupid enough to post in a place where ERAS members regularly frequent so we could report that jerk and hopefully bring him to justice. People are sick and ignorant ... even well meaning people can accidentally irreprabably damage den sites and breeding rituals meaning less snakes born every year. If you came to some meetings and got to know people on the forum, you would likely be welcomed to go out with someone who knew the locations but you have to put in the effort. I'm glad you ended up getting some good pictures and I second the suggestion that you enter the hibernaculums you found into the database. That way, it will be there for years to come for many other herpers to view and enjoy. Nobody means to give anyone "the cold shoulder" here ... but everybody means to preserve our wildlife and their habitats.