TARAS 2009 - Whatcha Get?

[FrogO_Oeyes]

"amarali" is the subspecies, regardless of the origin. Perhaps revisions are in order, but either way, they're both currently B.c.amarali. Suggesting that one is more "true" than the other is what's called a "no true Scotsman fallacy". It's not misinformation to say that some are mean when it is true. While your strain may not be, your strain does not define the subspecies as currently recognized, and the idea that "a snake will be a snake" holds true throughout zoology: animals bite, no matter how "tame" they are. They'll do what they wish regardless of any assumptions or rules to the contrary.

[tonyj]

Originally Posted by A&J Decals

Not ALL BCA's are mean......but a greater percentage ARE!!!
Scott
SMG

and

Originally Posted by FrogO_Oeyes

It's not misinformation to say that some are mean when it is true. While your strain may not be, your strain does not define the subspecies as currently recognized, and the idea that "a snake will be a snake" holds true throughout zoology: animals bite, no matter how "tame" they are. They'll do what they wish regardless of any assumptions or rules to the contrary.

Andrew .... yes, you are of course stating something that no-one here is disputing.

It's the statement above yours that I am questioning. Nothing more.

I believe that the sub species known as the Bc amarali has appeared in many forms, two of which we discuss here.

To claim percentages for a certain attribute or the other is really meaningless, without proper reference as to the source of that claimed fact, if in fact there is such a source.

Like saying the highest percentage of Chevrolets are driven by women wearing spectacles. Possible yes, ... but please quote the source.

[leezard]

but please quote the source.

.... there seems to be alot of this crap going on.

If I say that it's sunny outside right now, do I have to reference the Environment Canada website to make sure it's true, or prove it to other people? Sometimes personal experience IS the source of information.

So there are differing opinions -- I don't think either one has to prove to anyone how they got that belief. Just agree to disagree, and no one will look like a fool. (I've learned THAT one the hard way!!)

Or... should I reference that, too?

[Frogsnbugs]

Ian, I saw those Pancake torts too, I have never seen them before. They were REALLY interesting! So was the price, but I guess If you are really into those, you Pay it. Sure was Busy there! You could hardly move at times!-----Tina t, I have to say your Bumble Bee BP is really Pretty. You did the right thing! You BOUGHT what you wanted, instead of trying to breed for it and getting a bunch of snakes that aren't the colour you want, Maybe expensive now, but would have been more so if you had tried breeding for one. Congtatulations on your BP. Very nice. We bought lots of supplies, and two tokay geckos, and a Black spined Toad. I NEEDED MORE MONEY for Supplies. I saw a lot of stuff there I would have loved to have purchased! Gotta Save more money! Lol!

[FrogO_Oeyes]

Originally Posted by FrogO_Oeyes

Arrived with 9 species of salamanders and a few other things...didn't add MUCH...but unexpectedly ended up with some Japanese fire-bellied newts. Also picked up one Baron's mantella and three painted mantellas, plus a single pygmy chameleon.

I went home with [including display animals]:
...
Cynops pyrrhogaster Japanese firebellied newt NEW
...

Correction - arrived with nine species of salamanders, went home with 11. One of the above newts was actually:
Cynops sasayamae Sasayama firebellied newt NEW

Someone brought them from Montreal and was already at the airport when I found out about them. Thus, the three [of two species] I got were the only ones I saw.

To claim percentages for a certain attribute or the other is really meaningless, without proper reference as to the source of that claimed fact, if in fact there is such a source.

Like saying the highest percentage of Chevrolets are driven by women wearing spectacles. Possible yes, ... but please quote the source.

I agree completely. Percentages or proportions without substantiation are meaningless. Anyone can claim they've seen aliens or that 50% of turtles have fangs, but if that's not something anyone else can confirm, the means to do so should be provided. Most people are free to look out the window and confirm the weather. If they're living in a mine shaft, it would be reasonable of them to ask for proof. Claims of 1%, 50%, and 100% are equally valid when nothing is offered in support.

[r00tkanal]

Originally Posted by tonyj

As I mentioned earlier. I believe the Bc amaralis that Annette has are not from the same sub species as the amaralis that I own. Possibly we are dealing here with the Bolivian type amarali v South Brazilian type amarali.

At the risk of derailing this thread even further, I'd just like to clarify that, while I understand that Annette has breeding sets of both bolivian bca and brazilian bca, the specimen I acquired (which started this discussion) is in fact a brazilian bca, and certainly does behave like a snake. What I take away from this discussion is that while there may be some snakes that are more adjusted to human contact than others, we should always presume that a snake will behave like a snake.

[TraceyS]

Originally Posted by r00tkanal

What I take away from this discussion is that while there may be some snakes that are more adjusted to human contact than others, we should always presume that a snake will behave like a snake.

I think this is the best part to absorb from the whole thing. Always respect even the 'tamest' and supposed 'WUSS' snakes (right Mark? I think it was you that dissed the ball python or something??)

In my limited experience, there are good and bad in each species, just as you have snakes that are as tame as pussycats because they are handled more regularly, and/or come from a smaller more specialized breeder who has the time for more hands-on. Someone with a collection of 300+ snakes obviously does not have the time to handle each and every snake on a regular basis, VS a smalller breeder (may I pick on you Tony) who DOES handle regularly, even daily in some cases, and goes as far as to name every one of them, where they came from, lineage and temperament. I agree ANY snake out there can resort to instinct but amount of handling is huge in how a particular snake will play out.

To generalize though with a comment i.e. 'corn snakes are the best beginner snake and will NEVER bite' is a no go either. They are still a snake and can still be nippy.

[A&J Decals]

Originally Posted by tonyj

My point to this whole debate is to make potential Bc amarali owners aware that there is a line of amaralis available in this province that are naturally a gentle and beautiful boa, and are not the feisty, mean or ill tempered animal described. At least not under 'normal' conditions.

I believe that Annette also has some of Dan's stock(Amaralis) and they were aggressive as babies...I am sure that she is still respectful of the adults as any resondsible keeper should be....

Making the statement that you have a line of "tame" Amaralis is foolhardy, and potentially dangerous. It sounds like a sales pitch to me.(do you have a litter upcoming?.....hmmmmm)

You are welcome to your opinion as am I, my only hope is some child is not under the assumption that thier BCA is "tame" as could be.....only to find out differently....

Take it as you will.

Scott
SMG

[Cody]

Sounds like the ol Nature vs Nurture argument to me. Which in my opinion nature always wins with animals. A snake is not a human child that you can mold into basicually whatever you want. If I got out into the wild and smack a gorilla in the face, I expect one that is born and raised in a zoo is likely to rip me apart just like the wild one.

So unless all your snakes are born with a neurological defect that somehow makes them nice, I dont see how they would be any different than the majority of other specimens of their species. Other than without parasites, well fed, etc.

[tonyj]

Originally Posted by A&J Decals

I believe that Annette also has some of Dan's stock(Amaralis) and they were aggressive as babies...I am sure that she is still respectful of the adults as any resondsible keeper should be....

Making the statement that you have a line of "tame" Amaralis is foolhardy, and potentially dangerous. It sounds like a sales pitch to me.(do you have a litter upcoming?.....hmmmmm)

You are welcome to your opinion as am I, my only hope is some child is not under the assumption that thier BCA is "tame" as could be.....only to find out differently....

Take it as you will.

Scott
SMG

After reading the above, I fully believe that some of you are totally missing my intended point. You are putting words into my mouth and misquoting me.

If anyone has read the link I posted, you will be aware that there are at least two possible 'locales' of snakes which bear the name 'amarali'. They are in many ways different snakes and look quite different to each other. Possibly because of the limited supply of newly caught amarali and the fact these snakes are severely endangered - even more so than occidentalis, much research on just what we are dealing with needs to be done. These are the two types I was referring to.

The photos that you guys posted look to be of a different 'type' to the 'amarali' that I own.

Yours, you claim are feisty. Mine are less fiesty than a Colombian Bci, a snake not normally regarded as ill tempered, allthough I do agree any snake can have it's moments.

End of debate.

I have done as much reading as possible over the past three years on the Bca. I still have a lot to learn ...... but it seems we all do.

As far as expecting babies, no, I don't believe I am - that would be nice however.

I just wanted to enter into some intelligent open minded debate on the various 'amarali' that we now have available.

My snakes are not better or worse than anyone elses. Maybe just a different locale, which could have made for some interesting comparisons.

Obviously I have offended some people. For that I am sorry.

I hope soon to have Bco available. I have certain views on those too, which differ from some popular opinions. Fortunately however, apart from natural morphs, such as motley etc., there is only one recognized locale of Argentine boa.

Bcos just happen to be a another much maligned boa that some of us like to discuss.

I will be very careful however in future where I choose to share those views or initiate any debates.