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View Full Version : Scorps, are these ok?



Alberta Bred Geckos
04-30-2008, 08:56 PM
Just wondering if anyone knows (I've got like 10 things going at the moment) if these scorps are legal in Alberta??? As well, are they CITES?

~Centruroides exilicauda (Buthidae family)
~Hottentotta minax (Buthidae family)
~Uroplectes planimanus (Buthidae family)
~Tityus sylvestris (Buthidae family)
~Tityus bahiensis (Buthidae family)
~Rhopalurus junceus (Buthidae family)
~Orthochirus innesi (Buthidae family)
~Tarsoporosus kugleri (Scorpionidae Family)

I do realize most are probably not even in the pet trade, but just want to know as I might be lucky sometime.

darkhelmet
04-30-2008, 09:13 PM
they're all in the Buthidae family, which has all the nasty ones :P

Alberta Bred Geckos
04-30-2008, 09:20 PM
If I can handle a Tokay for a few years and not get bit, I think I can handle these guys :) I just need info on them, looking for caresheets as well on a few forums.

At least Scorps can climb glass at will lol

Neil
04-30-2008, 09:32 PM
http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/Documents/REGS/1997_143.CFM
here's the list for Alberta,don't know if inverts are on here ,look 'em up your self.

If I can handle a Tokay for a few years and not get bit, I think I can handle these guys :)
Are you joking! A gecko bite is so minor that it's hardly worth mentioning, some scorpions could KILL your silly *** if they get you! A fairly major difference I'd think !
Venomous inverts need to be taken very seriously.

Alberta Bred Geckos
04-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Yes Neil, I know LOL I'm extra cautious, as I do not plan on finding out if I am allergic to a Scorp sting. I do not plan to handle any of mine, I just like sitting back and watching em'! I find them a bit easier to handle being terrestrial than a mean fast aboreal gecko like a Tokay lol probably why I don't want T's very much lol

Neil
04-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Ok maybe I was a little heavy there,I know you are responsible and would treat them with the respect and caution the deserve.I just think that people should think seriously when they are bringing something potentially dangerous into their homes.Too many people read about something and want it without putting the thought they should into it.A critter landing in the rescue is one thing, some dumb kid landing in the hospital is another!

Alberta Bred Geckos
04-30-2008, 10:43 PM
Only dumb kid is me here LOL but yea I know where you are coming from. I plan to make some form of closing "scoop" to use to move the scorps around while doing maintainence on their setups. If I have to I will buy plastic, and make one myself with hinges and a lock of some form.

Kinda like a cat litter scoop, but with a lid lol

I have many plans to minimalize the risks, but I already know, bringin one in my house adds, and everytime I open the enclosure add as well to the risks involved. I plan to have plenty of safeguards :D

darkhelmet
04-30-2008, 11:50 PM
i like the guy at the TARAS show that bought a deathstalker and some other very deadly species off Neil

i'm really starting to like the spiders :D

Alberta Bred Geckos
04-30-2008, 11:57 PM
here's the list for Alberta,don't know if inverts are on here ,look 'em up your self.

Are you joking! A gecko bite is so minor that it's hardly worth mentioning, some scorpions could KILL your silly *** if they get you! A fairly major difference I'd think !
Venomous inverts need to be taken very seriously.

I looked myself Neil, either I'm blind or just too tired to find it lol Didn't really see anything in inverts. Weird.

Neil
05-01-2008, 12:00 AM
Ididn't want to go through it but I seem to remember them not being on there.I think it's more the AF... whatever the hell that is that covers the bugs.

Alberta Bred Geckos
05-01-2008, 12:04 AM
Yea I'll have to ask Andrew, I think he has a link to them. (their list?)

I'm sure some have to be restricted. I don't want to blow a pile of dough on some and then find out I can't have them. That would just plain suck.

FrogO_Oeyes
05-01-2008, 12:22 AM
Alberta has NO controls on arachnids. They're all legal. There are also no federal controls on their import, possession, or sale, with the exception of tarantulas, which are subject to CITES.

TARAS has a "no hots" policy. We don't have an issue with widows, at least for display, but we do not want things like Leiurus, Androctonus, Tityus, etc. present in the building, much less sold.

Alberta Bred Geckos
05-01-2008, 12:26 AM
Yea that's completely understandable :) Thanks for the info Frog!

If I do manage to get some, I will definitly have some good quality pics taken for display purposes :D Maybe even make an entry for competitions :O lol

If I ever do breed any scorps as well I will emphasize caution, as allergic reactions are a definite possibility. Even if they are just plain old Emperors!

Ollie
05-01-2008, 05:49 AM
There are also no federal controls on their import, possession, or sale, with the exception of tarantulas, which are subject to CITES.


Just a clarification here that the only CITES listed tarantulas are those in the genus Brachypelma. This means that any imports of Brachypelma must have proper paperwork and documentation. It does not restrict their sale or possession in Canada. All non-listed tarantulas are OK.
Local municipalities may however have by-laws that restrict their possession.

Ollie

Ollie
05-01-2008, 05:53 AM
TARAS has a "no hots" policy. We don't have an issue with widows, at least for display, but we do not want things like Leiurus, Androctonus, Tityus, etc. present in the building, much less sold.

Please explain the logic behind allowing widows but not allowing certain scorpions.

Ollie

FrogO_Oeyes
05-01-2008, 07:59 AM
I didn't set it up that way, but there is a certain logic in that Latrodectus are comparatively mild compared to many of the nastier scorpions. They're also easier to catch and squish. I've never made the decision on what is or is not allowed. Our policy is no hots, and this is specifically applied to scorpions which are known to be rapidly lethal. Widows of multiple species have been present most shows, although I can't say if any were for sale. At least some were "display" only, and all were North American species.

Besides, you don't really need a rationale to exclude what you know to be a bad idea. There's nothing to prevent re-evaluating priorities and choosing to exclude [or include] other species later

Tarantula Canada
05-01-2008, 02:03 PM
I just think that people should think seriously when they are bringing something potentially dangerous into their homes.Too many people read about something and want it without putting the thought they should into it.A critter landing in the rescue is one thing, some dumb kid landing in the hospital is another!

Well said Neil! We ticked off a few people when we refused to sell them hot scorpions, but if you look at our policies, it spells it out: "We reserve the right to not sell these animals if we have any reason to believe that 1.) the items showing proof of age are not legitimate (forged or stolen) 2.) the animals will be under the care of a minor, or 3.) the purchaser will not care for these animals in a responsible, safe manner."

One of the reason's Martin and I are no longer keeping hot scorpions in stock is because we get too many kids (see #2) and jackasses (see # 3) asking for them. When the first thing a person asks in an email is "What is the most dangerous scorpion you have for sale", red flaggs immidiately go up.

We can of course special order them when we make an import for responcible folks who ask for them, but again, this is only for people who we feel will treat the animals respocibly.

FrogO_Oeyes
05-01-2008, 03:02 PM
Hm. I just realized that some of the emperor scorpions are CITES as well. As for the tarantulas, that means you need a good ID accompanying your animals, since all you need to create a problem at the border is for someone to suspect you have a CITES animal without permit.

Alberta Bred Geckos
05-01-2008, 07:55 PM
Hmm, I'm betting most of the ones I have on my list are CITES then? I'm quite sure thatmost are high up or highly venomous, and need to be regulated. Would be nice to get some, they are absolutely awesome looking. I've begun my hunt, may have a line on a few possibly. Need to get more solid care info on them tho, as I want to provide the best, and most secure, care for the scorps. I'd hate to get some of these beauties in and have them die :( I'd be a very sad Panda!

Glad to hear that larger suppliers like yourself have safeguards in place TC :) If you can hook me up, drop me a PM or an email :D As well, if you know anyone with soild care tips/caresheets, that would be even better!

FrogO_Oeyes
05-01-2008, 08:00 PM
CITES is very easy to check. The complete list is posted online, and linked from some other threads. I doubt that ANYTHING on your list is CITES. CITES does not regulate venomous animals, it regulates commerce and trade in endangered species. Alberta doesn't regulate exotic invertebrates, and the CFIA does not regulate spiders or scorpions.

Ollie
05-01-2008, 08:08 PM
Hmm, I'm betting most of the ones I have on my list are CITES then? I'm quite sure thatmost are high up or highly venomous, and need to be regulated.

"CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival."

The above statement is from the CITES website and briefly explains what it is designed to do. It is not a method to regulate dangerous fauna or flora.

I don't think that any of the scorpions you listed are on the CITES lists but you can check for yourself here.

http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.shtml

Ollie

Alberta Bred Geckos
05-01-2008, 08:26 PM
Hmm well I'll be. I used my head this time and saved that to the favs lol

Dho...I can feel my wallet shrinking and imploding right now....lol

huggorm
05-02-2008, 08:03 AM
Just wondering if anyone knows (I've got like 10 things going at the moment) if these scorps are legal in Alberta??? As well, are they CITES?

~Centruroides exilicauda (Buthidae family)
~Hottentotta minax (Buthidae family)
~Uroplectes planimanus (Buthidae family)
~Tityus sylvestris (Buthidae family)
~Tityus bahiensis (Buthidae family)
~Rhopalurus junceus (Buthidae family)
~Orthochirus innesi (Buthidae family)
~Tarsoporosus kugleri (Scorpionidae Family)

I do realize most are probably not even in the pet trade, but just want to know as I might be lucky sometime.

I see no real hot ones there (Leiurus, Androctonus). Im sure the ones on your list can pack a punch but to say they are deadly etc is to exaggerate a whole lot.
Even with Leiurus and Androctonus the risk of acctually die after a sting is really low.
The only scorpion genus on CITES are Pandinus.

Ollie
05-02-2008, 08:18 AM
I see no real hot ones there (Leiurus, Androctonus). Im sure the ones on your list can pack a punch but to say they are deadly etc is to exaggerate a whole lot.
Even with Leiurus and Androctonus the risk of acctually die after a sting is really low.


I agree and I've been trying the find the study that confirmed this but haven't found it yet.

Ollie

TJEATWORLD
05-02-2008, 08:36 AM
i like the guy at the TARAS show that bought a deathstalker and some other very deadly species off Neil

i'm really starting to like the spiders :D

Thanks.....I think?

Alberta Bred Geckos
05-02-2008, 03:19 PM
LOL Well, it doesn't matter to me how venomous, I'm going to treat all as if they are, I do not feel like proving studies ect wrong on the toxicity of a particular scorp lol :D best to play safe IMO

If you don't know, don't try finding out.